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	<title>Comments on: On Listowel</title>
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	<link>http://gavreilly.com/2009/12/17/on-listowel/</link>
	<description>the thoughts of a journalist, web designer and musician, thinking out loud</description>
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		<title>By: christina</title>
		<link>http://gavreilly.com/2009/12/17/on-listowel/comment-page-2/#comment-1641</link>
		<dc:creator>christina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:24:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavreilly.com/?p=377#comment-1641</guid>
		<description>Gav,
Do yourself and everyone else a favour, 
Stop your s**t stirring, no good will
come of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gav,<br />
Do yourself and everyone else a favour,<br />
Stop your s**t stirring, no good will<br />
come of it.</p>
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		<title>By: kerryperson</title>
		<link>http://gavreilly.com/2009/12/17/on-listowel/comment-page-2/#comment-1640</link>
		<dc:creator>kerryperson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavreilly.com/?p=377#comment-1640</guid>
		<description>This thread has been dead for a while but this case has intrigued me so........

I’m not going to attempt to state whether the accused is guilty or not as many of the previous posts have done. What I would like to do is to ask people to look more closely at the external facts of the case.

The internal facts; accused caught on CCTV carrying the victim down an alley, found with her unconscious semi-naked body; initial denial and later admission of having attempted sex with the woman. Those facts are pretty damming. Not hard to see why the man was convicted. 

Why then, given the open&amp;shut nature of the evidence, have the people of Listowel come out so strongly in favour of the accused? What is the local insight that Listowel people have access to that results in the parish priest and even the man’s fiancé to stand by him? From what I have read, and I could have interpreted it wrong, it seems the people supported him because they thought he was innocent, rather than commiserating with him on his conviction.

This can not be simply explained as ‘small town small mindedness’. I come from a similarly sized Kerry town and a few years back an acquaintance of mine in his early 20s  was convicted of the sexual assault of a young girl. This was based on the accusations of that young girl. In a case that seemed a lot less concrete and more unusual the local people unanimously accepted the evidence and the findings of the court.

 This is one example and there have been many cases of sexual assault in towns like Listowel that have not garnered anything like the response seen. People have become accustomed to cases like this and a lot worse. People have been shown what priests are capable of, so I don’t think they would find similar actions by the local bouncer such a surprise. 
So, why?

Rape is such an emotive issue we are often tempted, in our own minds, to lessen the burden of evidence required. The accused is normally painted as a monster and is quickly convicted in the public eye long before the courts reach a verdict.

Fact – CCTV, man lied, found with unconscious woman

Fact – miscarriages of justice not as uncommon as we would like to think

Fact – women do lie and make false accusations of  rape

Fact – it was shown that the woman felt in necessary to lie about the amount of alcohol she had consumed that night.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This thread has been dead for a while but this case has intrigued me so&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>I’m not going to attempt to state whether the accused is guilty or not as many of the previous posts have done. What I would like to do is to ask people to look more closely at the external facts of the case.</p>
<p>The internal facts; accused caught on CCTV carrying the victim down an alley, found with her unconscious semi-naked body; initial denial and later admission of having attempted sex with the woman. Those facts are pretty damming. Not hard to see why the man was convicted. </p>
<p>Why then, given the open&amp;shut nature of the evidence, have the people of Listowel come out so strongly in favour of the accused? What is the local insight that Listowel people have access to that results in the parish priest and even the man’s fiancé to stand by him? From what I have read, and I could have interpreted it wrong, it seems the people supported him because they thought he was innocent, rather than commiserating with him on his conviction.</p>
<p>This can not be simply explained as ‘small town small mindedness’. I come from a similarly sized Kerry town and a few years back an acquaintance of mine in his early 20s  was convicted of the sexual assault of a young girl. This was based on the accusations of that young girl. In a case that seemed a lot less concrete and more unusual the local people unanimously accepted the evidence and the findings of the court.</p>
<p> This is one example and there have been many cases of sexual assault in towns like Listowel that have not garnered anything like the response seen. People have become accustomed to cases like this and a lot worse. People have been shown what priests are capable of, so I don’t think they would find similar actions by the local bouncer such a surprise.<br />
So, why?</p>
<p>Rape is such an emotive issue we are often tempted, in our own minds, to lessen the burden of evidence required. The accused is normally painted as a monster and is quickly convicted in the public eye long before the courts reach a verdict.</p>
<p>Fact – CCTV, man lied, found with unconscious woman</p>
<p>Fact – miscarriages of justice not as uncommon as we would like to think</p>
<p>Fact – women do lie and make false accusations of  rape</p>
<p>Fact – it was shown that the woman felt in necessary to lie about the amount of alcohol she had consumed that night.</p>
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		<title>By: Alohababy</title>
		<link>http://gavreilly.com/2009/12/17/on-listowel/comment-page-2/#comment-1182</link>
		<dc:creator>Alohababy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavreilly.com/?p=377#comment-1182</guid>
		<description>they could have gone to visit him in prison if they felt that stronly about it. they even hav visitors rooms and dedicated visiting times. a courtroom is not the time or the place especially when he had already been convicted! its scary to think that ther are at least 50 people in listowel who thinks what they did was ok, think il steer clear of that neck of the woods. also i feel that rape and sexual assault affect the victim in much the same way, bothe are a degrading, frightening and humiliating experience which profoundly affects your life!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>they could have gone to visit him in prison if they felt that stronly about it. they even hav visitors rooms and dedicated visiting times. a courtroom is not the time or the place especially when he had already been convicted! its scary to think that ther are at least 50 people in listowel who thinks what they did was ok, think il steer clear of that neck of the woods. also i feel that rape and sexual assault affect the victim in much the same way, bothe are a degrading, frightening and humiliating experience which profoundly affects your life!!</p>
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		<title>By: clare curran</title>
		<link>http://gavreilly.com/2009/12/17/on-listowel/comment-page-2/#comment-1180</link>
		<dc:creator>clare curran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 09:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavreilly.com/?p=377#comment-1180</guid>
		<description>While man has clearly been caracterised as a rapist and has not been convicted as such try to put yourself in the shoes of the womans father, her brother, her boyfriend, her friend, then ask yourself how you would feel to see your parish priest que to shake his hand, to see your neighbours do likewise, All the while bare in mind... She has done nothing wrong, but be assaulted at the hands of that man. 

Then come back with your comments of understanding, and equality for all, it has been proved that he commited a crime, proved that he acted in a manner while both disgusting and vile totally illegal, 

Perhaps hes a likleable man, perhaps hes a friendly fun chap, but he is still a foul, disgusting, vomit endusing pervert who deseves condemnation, and disgust. He made his bed when he assaulted that girl let him lie in it.

Oh and while im at it, we have a peadophile in our area, hes a friendly helpful chap too, do you have children Reilly?.............Perhaps he could babysit for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While man has clearly been caracterised as a rapist and has not been convicted as such try to put yourself in the shoes of the womans father, her brother, her boyfriend, her friend, then ask yourself how you would feel to see your parish priest que to shake his hand, to see your neighbours do likewise, All the while bare in mind&#8230; She has done nothing wrong, but be assaulted at the hands of that man. </p>
<p>Then come back with your comments of understanding, and equality for all, it has been proved that he commited a crime, proved that he acted in a manner while both disgusting and vile totally illegal, </p>
<p>Perhaps hes a likleable man, perhaps hes a friendly fun chap, but he is still a foul, disgusting, vomit endusing pervert who deseves condemnation, and disgust. He made his bed when he assaulted that girl let him lie in it.</p>
<p>Oh and while im at it, we have a peadophile in our area, hes a friendly helpful chap too, do you have children Reilly?&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.Perhaps he could babysit for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://gavreilly.com/2009/12/17/on-listowel/comment-page-2/#comment-1158</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 09:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavreilly.com/?p=377#comment-1158</guid>
		<description>Kelly,
Neanderthals were considered highly intelligent with a comparable brain structure to that of HomoSapian, but not as indented. In fact it is thought that if we could bring back a Neanderthal man to the present, shave and clean him up, dress him up in a suit, he would be indistinguishable to &quot;modern man.&quot; Neanderthals also had a complex societial structure similar to HomoSapians at that time. The skeletal structure also varied just like &quot;Modern man&quot; so not all Neanderthals had the same heavy brow, and wide chin, there were regional variations.
 So I think that Neanderthal man would be highly indignant and insulted by being compared to someone like Dan Foley.
Another thing about consent, is that a woman could walk around naked with a mattress strapped to her back and have a reputation of a bike, but if she says No to a fella it means No. If she is inebriated then it is understood that not being able to give consent also means No. 
As for changes in Ireland about our attitudes, we are changing and websites such as these show that we are now facing these issues. A few years ago, cases such as these as well as the scandals in the church, were brushed under the carpet. No more to that, we are now voicing our opinions and all abusers named and shamed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kelly,<br />
Neanderthals were considered highly intelligent with a comparable brain structure to that of HomoSapian, but not as indented. In fact it is thought that if we could bring back a Neanderthal man to the present, shave and clean him up, dress him up in a suit, he would be indistinguishable to &#8220;modern man.&#8221; Neanderthals also had a complex societial structure similar to HomoSapians at that time. The skeletal structure also varied just like &#8220;Modern man&#8221; so not all Neanderthals had the same heavy brow, and wide chin, there were regional variations.<br />
 So I think that Neanderthal man would be highly indignant and insulted by being compared to someone like Dan Foley.<br />
Another thing about consent, is that a woman could walk around naked with a mattress strapped to her back and have a reputation of a bike, but if she says No to a fella it means No. If she is inebriated then it is understood that not being able to give consent also means No.<br />
As for changes in Ireland about our attitudes, we are changing and websites such as these show that we are now facing these issues. A few years ago, cases such as these as well as the scandals in the church, were brushed under the carpet. No more to that, we are now voicing our opinions and all abusers named and shamed.</p>
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		<title>By: Gav</title>
		<link>http://gavreilly.com/2009/12/17/on-listowel/comment-page-2/#comment-1152</link>
		<dc:creator>Gav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 21:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavreilly.com/?p=377#comment-1152</guid>
		<description>Thannks for your comments everyone; sorry I&#039;ve taken a while to get to them, I had a family bereavement just before Christmas so I&#039;ve been offline for a while.

Jasmine - You said:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Can I point out when a person is inebriated that person (male or female) is not in a capacity of making a decision. I would have thought it is obvious that when a woman is not capable of saying no it does not mean she is consenting to the sexual activity.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Because she can&#039;t remember it, what&#039;s to say she hadn&#039;t consented at the time? As Ciara said in an earlier comment, it&#039;s easier to cry foul and call a man a rapist than to admit that women have loose morals.

Kelly - I wish you had read over the earlier comments where I&#039;d made it painfully clear that I think the guy is sick and deserves to be locked up. I&#039;m just saying that it&#039;s a typically myopic reaction to label someone a rapist when rape &lt;i&gt;didn&#039;t happen here&lt;/i&gt;.

Thanks to everyone for their comments on this; while I clearly can&#039;t say I&#039;m on the popular side of the argument I think the responses this post has gotten have been very interesting indeed. 

In the interests of letting the rest of the blog live, though, sadly I&#039;m probably not going to be able to respond to any further comments on this post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thannks for your comments everyone; sorry I&#8217;ve taken a while to get to them, I had a family bereavement just before Christmas so I&#8217;ve been offline for a while.</p>
<p>Jasmine &#8211; You said:</p>
<blockquote><p>Can I point out when a person is inebriated that person (male or female) is not in a capacity of making a decision. I would have thought it is obvious that when a woman is not capable of saying no it does not mean she is consenting to the sexual activity.</p></blockquote>
<p>Because she can&#8217;t remember it, what&#8217;s to say she hadn&#8217;t consented at the time? As Ciara said in an earlier comment, it&#8217;s easier to cry foul and call a man a rapist than to admit that women have loose morals.</p>
<p>Kelly &#8211; I wish you had read over the earlier comments where I&#8217;d made it painfully clear that I think the guy is sick and deserves to be locked up. I&#8217;m just saying that it&#8217;s a typically myopic reaction to label someone a rapist when rape <i>didn&#8217;t happen here</i>.</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for their comments on this; while I clearly can&#8217;t say I&#8217;m on the popular side of the argument I think the responses this post has gotten have been very interesting indeed. </p>
<p>In the interests of letting the rest of the blog live, though, sadly I&#8217;m probably not going to be able to respond to any further comments on this post.</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://gavreilly.com/2009/12/17/on-listowel/comment-page-2/#comment-1144</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 01:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavreilly.com/?p=377#comment-1144</guid>
		<description>All I can say to you GAV is you are a total neadathol.  Even if I had such uneducated, backward thoughts such as yours, I would keep my mouth shut. I had always been very proud of Listowel and coming from there but now I would not even dream of getting into a conversation with a guy from there if this is what is produced there and what the local community, church deem as a good character.  
If I ever met one of these 50 people I would ask them to close their eyes and imagine their mother, sister or daughter being dragged down a lane and being sexually abused by this animal and then think about what a top guy he is now.  
I could not care less if this woman was the town bike or a nun.  No one has the right to force anyone into sexual relations.  
He is just VERY lucky it wasn&#039;t me as he would not have lived to get the sentance.  I would have gathered myself up the next day, gone and bought a shot gun and blown him to hell and his supporters with him!!!!!!  I just pray you don&#039;t have any female children or sisters as you must treat them like dirt!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I can say to you GAV is you are a total neadathol.  Even if I had such uneducated, backward thoughts such as yours, I would keep my mouth shut. I had always been very proud of Listowel and coming from there but now I would not even dream of getting into a conversation with a guy from there if this is what is produced there and what the local community, church deem as a good character.<br />
If I ever met one of these 50 people I would ask them to close their eyes and imagine their mother, sister or daughter being dragged down a lane and being sexually abused by this animal and then think about what a top guy he is now.<br />
I could not care less if this woman was the town bike or a nun.  No one has the right to force anyone into sexual relations.<br />
He is just VERY lucky it wasn&#8217;t me as he would not have lived to get the sentance.  I would have gathered myself up the next day, gone and bought a shot gun and blown him to hell and his supporters with him!!!!!!  I just pray you don&#8217;t have any female children or sisters as you must treat them like dirt!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Caoimhin</title>
		<link>http://gavreilly.com/2009/12/17/on-listowel/comment-page-2/#comment-1141</link>
		<dc:creator>Caoimhin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 07:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavreilly.com/?p=377#comment-1141</guid>
		<description>Sean, you&#039;re touching a nerve here. The people who lined up in court for the Foley animal are staying very quiet, probably there&#039;s a lot more to this guy&#039;s character than we think. As for the girlfriend: How sad can you get, but she like the mis-guided priest and the 50 or so court sympathisers were on a mission to convince the Justice that Danny wasn&#039;t as bad as he seemed. If the Justice saw the extent of the   sympathy maybe he&#039;d reduce the sentence for poor, poor Danny. &quot;Shure he didn&#039;t even rape the girl&quot;. Worth a try but it backfired thank God.

The girlfriend won&#039;t be around in five years, but like Foley she must be clearly a biscuit short of a packet.

I shudder to think of what the offspring might be like!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean, you&#8217;re touching a nerve here. The people who lined up in court for the Foley animal are staying very quiet, probably there&#8217;s a lot more to this guy&#8217;s character than we think. As for the girlfriend: How sad can you get, but she like the mis-guided priest and the 50 or so court sympathisers were on a mission to convince the Justice that Danny wasn&#8217;t as bad as he seemed. If the Justice saw the extent of the   sympathy maybe he&#8217;d reduce the sentence for poor, poor Danny. &#8220;Shure he didn&#8217;t even rape the girl&#8221;. Worth a try but it backfired thank God.</p>
<p>The girlfriend won&#8217;t be around in five years, but like Foley she must be clearly a biscuit short of a packet.</p>
<p>I shudder to think of what the offspring might be like!!</p>
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		<title>By: sean</title>
		<link>http://gavreilly.com/2009/12/17/on-listowel/comment-page-2/#comment-1137</link>
		<dc:creator>sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 20:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavreilly.com/?p=377#comment-1137</guid>
		<description>funny though how his girlfriend of 3 wks at the time of the incident stood by him and waits to marry him.
When he worked in a night club more than 10yrs back ,his colleagues viewed him as big and strong with a very low intellect and they were Irish too by the way, some who knew him well and learned of this story by way of the internet etc believed that he could have done this. Just their opinion  only backed up with a comment of &quot;there was an incident involving a girl .......&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>funny though how his girlfriend of 3 wks at the time of the incident stood by him and waits to marry him.<br />
When he worked in a night club more than 10yrs back ,his colleagues viewed him as big and strong with a very low intellect and they were Irish too by the way, some who knew him well and learned of this story by way of the internet etc believed that he could have done this. Just their opinion  only backed up with a comment of &#8220;there was an incident involving a girl &#8230;&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran</title>
		<link>http://gavreilly.com/2009/12/17/on-listowel/comment-page-2/#comment-1125</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gavreilly.com/?p=377#comment-1125</guid>
		<description>Such a show of &quot;sympathy&quot; in the Listowel courtroom was appalling. What must the poor girl have felt as she witnessed this support?  I suspect that many of the good citizens of Listowel think she led Foley on, that in some way he was not completely to blame for the rape (call it by it&#039;s real name).  Shame on them for subjecting the girl to even more anguish after all she has been through.  Things will never be the same for her again, that&#039;s for sure. 

Happy Christmas one and all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Such a show of &#8220;sympathy&#8221; in the Listowel courtroom was appalling. What must the poor girl have felt as she witnessed this support?  I suspect that many of the good citizens of Listowel think she led Foley on, that in some way he was not completely to blame for the rape (call it by it&#8217;s real name).  Shame on them for subjecting the girl to even more anguish after all she has been through.  Things will never be the same for her again, that&#8217;s for sure. </p>
<p>Happy Christmas one and all.</p>
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